Food, Health, Mindset, Entrepreneurship, Dual Interview with Michelle Hurn

Today's show features Michelle Hurn, a clinical dietitian, endurance athlete and writer. Tune in for a full hour of amazing conversations about mindset, entrepreneurship, personal success stories, nutrition, and much more!

Welcome to the first DUAL episode of the Better Human Podcast! Today's show features Michelle Hurn, a clinical dietitian, endurance athlete and writer! Michelle interviews Colin for the first part of the show (which will also be posted on her podcast), and is interviewed by Colin for the second part. Tune in for a full hour of amazing conversations about mindset, entrepreneurship, personal success stories, nutrition, and much more!

About Michelle

  • Michelle Hurn is a registered and licensed dietitian with eleven years of experience as a clinical, acute care dietitian, lead dietitian in psychiatric care, and outpatient dietitian. Michelle is an avid endurance athlete, she has qualified for the Boston Marathon 12 times, and on November 7th 2020, she recently won her first ultra marathon covering 44.63 miles in a 6 hour timed race.
  • While practicing inpatient and outpatient care in the hospital setting, Michelle discovered a disheartening connecting between the high carbohydrate, low fat, “sugar in moderation,” nutrition guidelines she was required to teach, and the rapidly declining health of her patients.
  • In 2019, Michelle’s health started to fall apart. She was experiencing serve muscle pain, spasms, and crippling anxiety. She decided to follow a low carbohydrate, high animal protein diet simply to see if it might alleviate the severe muscle pain she was experiencing. Not only was her muscle pain gone in a matter of weeks, her decades of anxiety began to fade.
  • After reviewing the extensive clinical trials on a low carbohydrate diet, she knew she had to spread the word about this transformative way of eating. Michelle has written the book, “The Dietitian’s Dilemma,” detailing how the current nutrition guidelines came into existence and advocating a low carbohydrate, animal-based way of eating as an option for individuals struggling with diabetes, mental disorders, eating disorders, sarcopenia, and heart disease.

Find Michelle at the following links:

Michelle on Twitter

About Show:

  • 👨 The Better Human Podcast is a show dedicated to the pursuit of Building Better Humans. Hosted by Colin Stuckert, Entrepreneur, Thinker, and Better Human Builder.
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Copyright 2020 Colin Stuckert

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[00:00:00] [00:00:00] Michelle Hurn: [00:00:00] You guys thank you so much for tuning in today. I am super excited. You guys, you know, we've we bring on a lot of guests on the dietician's dilemma. We talked to people in the ketogenic, the carnivores and the low carb community. You guys, I wanted to do something a little bit different. I wanted to bring on someone who started their own company, very successful.

[00:00:15]Colin, thank you so much for taking the time today. I really appreciate you coming on.

[00:00:18] Colin Stuckert: [00:00:18] Appreciate it. Thank you.

[00:00:20] Michelle Hurn: [00:00:20] Yeah. So, you know, for our audience, if people aren't familiar with you or the company that you started, can you just touch a little bit on like. How you started your company, why you started your company and maybe a little bit about your own health journey.

[00:00:32] Colin Stuckert: [00:00:32] Yeah. So every time I get asked this question, I'm trying to get better at making it shorter. You know, cause obviously this goes back to like high school. This is like, I got interested in fitness cause I wanted abs and then that led me into like bodybuilding men's health, that whole world. And then, you know, I was working out with some friends at the time and.   I still couldn't get that last 10 pounds of stubborn belly fat off. Right. And like, I've always been kind of a leaner skinnier Jean type of guy. And so it was like, I'm like, what am I doing wrong here? You know, long story short, I eventually found cross at one day after doing the body building routine for a few years and then crossfit kind of sparked my interest went down that rabbit hole got certified, eventually opened a gym that was kind of my life for a long time, you know, very fitness focus.

[00:01:13] And then that through that process, Well first the zone diet. And then that kinda got me the, methodology of kind of counting blocks and having some kind of idea around tracking and macros. Right. Which I think is useful to have to build an intuitive sense for, although I think everybody should eventually evolve out of that.

[00:01:29] Right. I did that for a while. And then I remember it was in the CrossFit journal, which is a publication. They were putting out, somebody did an article on the paleo diet. I don't know if it was like Rob Wolf for someone. And that was promoting that, but read it and just a light bulb moment went off.

[00:01:44] I was like, well, that's interesting. So if I eat foods that are natural to the human species, right. I get better results. And so I did it and then I did get better results. And then I was like, okay, this is the game changer. And I was kind of all at the same time, like, why is nobody talking about this?

[00:01:58] Like real food, [00:02:00] real natural food. Like, this is so simple. It makes so much sense yet. It's not a thing. Right. And even in CrossFit today, it's, it's, it's not as much of a thing as I feel like it should be. Right. You know, so I became obsessed at that point with cooking food, nutrition, like supplements, everything.

[00:02:15] I just went deep, deep, deep, deep into it. And that led me, you know, to basically everything I've been doing today. But the long story short is when I made that connection between quality. Food and ingredients and supplements and my results and feeling better, looking better, performing better. That was like a first principle for me that since then, it's still integral to my life.

[00:02:35] Right. And that kind of like the wild foods where I was like, well, there's always something that's on the market. I have no idea how they're made. They don't put anything on the label. I don't know where the ingredients come from. Like even to this day, it's not, there's pretty much no insight into it. And I went into another rabbit hole, right?

[00:02:49] Again, just pursuing my interests. It led me into this rabbit hole. How are supplements made? And you know, like for example, whey protein was a product I was taking a lot and you just didn't know anything about the cows, you know, anything about how how they lived or if, if they were grass fed or not, et cetera.

[00:03:03] So that basically led me into trying to find a grassland, whey protein for myself. I wanted to find the best quality in the world. And I wanted to just kind of check that box off and feel like I'm taking the best way. Like it's good. I don't have to worry about it. Right. And just like, you know, one product at a time, I did that.

[00:03:20] And then I just like, well, maybe I can sell some wine. Maybe some, someone else would be interested. And I did. I started selling on Amazon in 2015 in January. I did like $500 in sales with two products. And by the end of the year, we had, you know, half a million in sales. And I was like, okay, well, you know, I forgot what I'm gonna do next.

[00:03:34] And like, you know, Amazon, the time was like wild West. Like it's definitely right place, right time. But it was also some of, you know, pursuing things that matter to me for my own. My own pursuit. Right. I didn't go into it saying, I want to make money. I went into it saying, I want to understand, know and learn so that I can apply in my life.

[00:03:50] And like, I just feel like anything we're going to be doing at this point in life, you know, kind of from the business perspective or the professional perspective should be always trying to figure out what I now call the infinite [00:04:00] game, which is kind of a concept that's been popular. Simon Sinek wrote a book about it, but for me, it's like, I want to do the things I'm gonna do every single day.

[00:04:07] And then I wanna figure how to make money from those things. Right. And so I've been fortunate and I'm also putting in a lot of work and, you know, these things kind of kind of fell together. But at the same time, it's like the harder I work, the luckier I get or whatever. So that's kind of the origin story and we can kind of pull in whatever thread that you want.

[00:04:23] Michelle Hurn: [00:04:23] Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's interesting because I don't think a lot of people understand, and this is what, something that you know, I learned gosh, many years ago, supplements, a lot of people think if I take a supplement, you know, I turn it over on the back, that it absolutely has what it says on the label, but supplements are not regulated by the FDA.

[00:04:37] So I can literally sell you you know, a bottle of calcium and it legally doesn't have to have any calcium in it that blew my mind when I heard that. So, you know, I think a lot of that, you know, if it's on the shelf, if it's in the store, it's quality. Right. And I'm sure like, So, can you talk just a little bit about that?

[00:04:53] Cause I think, you know, some people have told me like, Oh, it doesn't really matter, you know, type of thing. Yeah.

[00:04:57] Colin Stuckert: [00:04:57] No, this applies to the food industry as well though. Like, like something that's like even an organic label, which we have organic certified products, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's good or on the same standard as other products.

[00:05:10] Like there's just a lot to it. And you know, we can talk about this for the whole hour, but I kind of use it here where stick of. There's two, zero six. I use, I use one to which the bigger the company and the bigger scale they have, the lower, the quality, because there's literally impossible to reach millions of millions of people with, with food.

[00:05:27] And I mean, supplements are a little bit more standardized. You can kind of mass produce them. But there are constraints even on that, because at the farm level, if you're getting a really high quality stuff, they're going to hate constraints. Whereas the mass produced cheap stuff coming out of China is always available on demand, right?

[00:05:40] So like there is a little bit of where the heroes that kicks in for whether it's food or mass produced eggs, for example, or whether it's mass produced vitamin C powder. Right. Like, it's going, there's always gonna be constraints. And the bigger, the scale, the, the, like, almost with out a doubt, you can just assume that if they're one of the top brands in the world, servicing millions [00:06:00] customers, it's not quality.

[00:06:01] Like that's just kind of the heuristic I use. Right? Like I don't go to Walmart to buy supplements, you know, or, or, or even food for that matter. So kind of the same principle. My second hero stick is which I hope I can remember because the first one, so it's it's scale bigger. Yeah. Smaller, the better, right?

[00:06:17] Oh, and then, so the second one is really building a relationship with a brand. So in food, we kind of, you know, a lot of my listeners. And your audience as well, probably get the idea of like knowing your farmer, right? Like that's not a catch all because you can have farmers that don't do it the right way or whatever, but when you really get to know them and you buy from them consistently, you test the products.

[00:06:35] Cause you're eating them. Right. And usually over time, if there's something glaring, it's going to stick out. Like for example, we buy these eggs. There's two eggs. We get locally. One was a corn free soy free feed to the check-in like, like literally the best sex we've ever found. We did those for a while.

[00:06:50] And then like, I think there was a supply issue or we might've moved to whatever, so I'm gonna get it delivered and then went to some other eggs. And we noticed a legit for Alison resemble, got a shoe for me, gut issue. Right. We could feel I would get headaches. And like, if I eat too many eggs, the whites really gets me.

[00:07:05] I feel nauseous and never happened with the corn free soy free X. So, what I'm trying to say is if you're buying products consistently and you're trusting your suppliers, and this is true of a supplement brand or a food brand, and you do that over a long enough period of time, you're going to be able to develop intuition for like, I mean, even if you're buying something from someone you trust, maybe they're submitting with feed in the wintertime.

[00:07:27] And like the beef is just not as good. For example, your body will really pick up on that. The more in tune you get. So those are the two things that I try to just from a broad perspective, explain to people like, get to know brands and trust them. Right? And if, if the quality changes investigated or maybe try another brand or whatever, you know, and then the bigger, the scale, the bigger the brand, the less likely it is to be quality.

[00:07:46]Michelle Hurn: [00:07:46] Hmm. No, I totally hear that. Cause yeah, we buy it from a local farmer and they actually, you know, with the COVID pandemic, they said now, now that they're at like max capacity, like this is all we can do, you know,

[00:07:58]Colin Stuckert: [00:07:58] that's a good sign. [00:08:00] Yeah.

[00:08:01]Michelle Hurn: [00:08:01] Well, and so, you know, you said you took your company from, you know, $500 to over half a million dollars.

[00:08:06] And, you know, I, I've had a lot of people reach out to me and be like, you know, I'm interested in writing a book or I'm interested in pursuing a passion. And I think you really hit it on hit the nail on the head was saying like, You know, ideally you have, you have this passion, this is what I want to do.

[00:08:18] This is what drives me. And if you can find a way to make money off that or to like to live, you know, make a living off that. That's excellent. So what, what tips people or what, you know, someone who says, okay, I want to get started. Like, what has made you successful?

[00:08:30]Colin Stuckert: [00:08:30] Oh,

[00:08:32]Michelle Hurn: [00:08:32] You're probably like do to, you know, 20 hours on this, but yeah, maybe if

[00:08:37] you keep it, let me,  so I love talking about this stuff. But, and I've been thinking about it for years. Okay. Because. I always had this kind of growth mindset, a very iconic classic, very like tend to do well in school. And I always think I was basically led to believe that I'm going to be a loser because I didn't do good in school.

[00:08:53] Right. And then I woke up to this entrepreneurship, you know, and obviously this is trending, the internet was trending at the time. And so this has opened up. Like, I remember when I was high school and even college, nobody talks about like owning a business. I didn't even know you could own a business. I thought like, Well, the corporations could do it.

[00:09:06] And then I didn't know what a corporation was like. It's not like it is today where everyone's incentive, you know, encouraged to like build their own brand or whatever. And so that's amazing. And I think everyone alive today should be super excited about that. Okay. So, but what I've been also thinking about is how do I give advice?

[00:09:22] And, and that's based on, you know, real life and based in the unfortunate reality that. Not everybody can think and act like the 1%. And so this sounds elitist, but there's also some nuggets in here that we have to kind of think about. And again, the truth sometimes hurts and I, and I want to get people the hard, real truth is as, as good as I can, because not anything else isn't serving them.

[00:09:47] Right. Fluff and whatever, and sugarcoating and beating around the Bush does not serve anybody. Okay. I don't know what set me apart. A lot of environmental factors, a lot of genetics, a lot of opportunity. This is whatever. Right. [00:10:00] But there, you know, this question is hard to answer because like I could, I could.

[00:10:05] You know, hindsight's 2020. I could pick out things that I did and be like, yeah, that was amazing. There's a lot of luck involved in everything like right place, right time. But what you'll see with entrepreneurs that are successful over the long run is a really good entrepreneurs. I mean, they might start 10 companies and fail with nine of them and it might take 10 to 15 years, but then they're eventually successful.

[00:10:23] I believe that to be true. Now, I also believe that not everybody should be an entrepreneur. I used to think that. Now in the new digital age, and we're kind of getting the weeds with this, but moving forward, I think everybody should at least be able to be a freelancer or a remote employee. Right. And with 2020, that's opened it up.

[00:10:38] A lot of companies are like being open to that idea and that's amazing. And now you can negotiate and say, I want to work remote or whatever. And if you're a knowledge worker, right, you should be able to, at the very least control where you work from and your hours and all that, you should not have to show up to an office and be tied down geographically or to the clock.

[00:10:53] Okay. So that's, that's just like a bit of side advice for everyone moving forward. Like, put that in your mind, start working towards that. You'd be amazed what you can accomplish at, you know as an employee, even if you ask for it or you plant the seed and you know, I've had employees for years and it's just amazing.

[00:11:07] Half the time, they don't even ask me for things. And then they say, well, I've got to leave because of this. And I'm like, why don't you ask me like a year ago, you'd be having this single whole time, like squeaky wheel gets the grease. So as far as success goes, though, that I'm trying to preface this advice with.

[00:11:21] The reality is if you want to write a book, you'd already be writing a book. That's kind of like, it just is what it is. Like. There's nothing preventing you from taking your phone and opening up a notepad and everyday writing for 10 minutes, 20 minutes, whatever, and building a writing routine. Okay. So this idea that like, I want to write a book for most people.

[00:11:36] What they're telling themselves is I want to be a published author. They don't actually want to write a book. Okay. If you want to write a book, you'd be writing a book. So that's just something like, be honest with yourself, become self-aware of the stories you're telling yourself. And maybe that's a first step and breaking these stories and the really bad thought patterns that a lot of people have right now.

[00:11:54] The book specifically, though. If you want to write a book, you can self publish a book in a weekend. All right. [00:12:00] I just actually published one. I don't have one next to me, but it's 50 tips, real food. And it's a, it's a short book where it's basically, every chapter is like a couple paragraphs and I wanted to just do this to get back into the publishing game, get my head into the game.

[00:12:12] And I probably wrote it in a month and I rewrote it like seven times, because really when it comes to writing a book, it's all about editing. It's not about the writing parts though. The editing part, you know, as you know, and I finally so, so I finished it edited, whatever did F did a simple book cover on, in like a free online design app.

[00:12:28] Like it's amazing the resources you have, if you just take the action and do it and figure it out, right? So you could write a first draft and it can be a bad book and you can publish in a weekend through Kendall's publishing platform. It's quite literally as simple as uploading a doc file. Which you can also do in Google docs for free, again, like literally no cost here, and then you can upload it.

[00:12:48] And then you have a FA a book cover that you can actually design in Amazon. They give you tools to do that, and then they'll prove it, which I don't even know if there's any real guidelines. Like you pretty much can publish anything and you have a book published. So it's like, I don't know if that really answers the question, but I want people to just become aware.

[00:13:08] Of their, of their thoughts and desires, because a lot of times what they want is they want the net results and they don't want to actually do the work and do the thing to have that net result. And that's fine, right? Because some people think they want to be a writer, but they, but they don't like, you know, when you're a writer and that becomes your life.

[00:13:22] And, you know, you have like two hours a day where you fight, you know, writer's block and all these different things like that might not be the life you want, just because you want a book written doesn't mean you really want to be a writer. So like, we have to really. Connect the actual work, what we're doing on a daily basis to the end result.

[00:13:38] And that's why I focus on like, what do you like doing, what are you good at a combination of those things? And what are you already doing? Right. What do you already do? And not, you don't get paid for it, like, cause that in some ways probably connected or closely align with what your infinite game could be, which is infinite game.

[00:13:52] I didn't define that earlier as again, that you play anyways, right? If a game you play forever. And there's no, there's no winning or losing. So if you're a writer and it's really your [00:14:00] identity, you'd already be writing a book because you're going to write for the rest of your life. Right. That's just, that's just is what it is.

[00:14:04] Right. And you can develop these habits and you build these, these aren't set, like based on your upbringing, whatever, but, but you really have to understand the mechanisms at play and where to focus your time and, you know, test being a writer for 30 days, like an hour. Can you do an hour a day, right? Can you just literally write an hour a day, no matter what for 30 days, and then do it.

[00:14:22] And maybe you love that. Maybe didn't, you know, you can kind of go from there. So. I think it's kind of to answer your question. I don't, I don't know.

[00:14:29]I was like, I was just thinking like, when you were talking about that, like I am, I'm a runner. I've been a distance runner since I was 14, you know, I'm 37 and nobody ever tells me to run.

[00:14:37] Like I get up every single day. I love it. Something I'm drawn to. I heard Wayne Gretzky, the famous hockey player he was at a, he was at a conference and a parent went up and asked him and said, how can I get my son to love, you know, to want to be good at hockey. I love hockey like you do. And he just said, can't like, if they don't, you can't, you know, There he's like, you couldn't pull me off the ice, you know, it's, it's some we have that, you know, to be successful.

[00:14:59] I do think you have to kind of start with that, like innate desire, something like deep within you, you know, and like you said, whether that's writing or that starting a business, or whether that's being an entrepreneur or, you know, running as far as growing your company, have you found things, you know, I'm sure there's been some trial and error, you know, maybe with different products or different marketing, have you Yeah.

[00:15:16] Are there any specific, you know, like I said, I hate to say tips cause I'm sure, like, you know, you've learned a bunch of different things, but is there anything that you have found that's really contributed to your success as a, as someone who owns a business?

[00:15:27] Colin Stuckert: [00:15:27] Yeah. If you want to be an entrepreneur, you have to become a couple of things, but I'm trying to focus on the first principles here.

[00:15:34] Like they're really big things. You have to become a reader. You have to have a thirst for knowledge. You have to, you have to embrace mistakes, right? You that all time embrace failure, whatever the point isn't the fail. The point is the winning make money. Let's be clear about what entrepreneurship is, right?

[00:15:50] And ideally you connect that to something you feel good about and you're servicing customers and you're improving people's lives. That is what the best entrepreneurs do. Right.  You look at someone like Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, Warren [00:16:00] buffet, these guys, they will do what they do to the, to, to, to the end of their life.

[00:16:04] And even if they were just millionaires or maybe made a little bit of money, they'd still be doing the thing they're doing. Like they have a broader mission. They have literally figured out what their infinite game is. Right. And that's why they're, so that's why so successful. Okay. So you have to become a learner.

[00:16:19] You ha you have to read a lot. Okay. I don't really know anybody successful or even. Interesting as a person that doesn't read a lot, it's just is what it is. Unfortunately, it is what it is. And I mean like books, the top books of all time, not just articles and, you know, short bits on Instagram, like you really got to go to the best ideas that humanity has produced thus far in 2020.

[00:16:37] And you need to consume them over and over and over and over and over again. I just started rereading how to win friends and influence people. And I read it maybe 10 years ago. It's literally speaking to me today.  In a completely different way than when I was 25. Like, is this a game changer right now?

[00:16:53] Especially since at this point in my life, I'm spending a lot more time on people and building my network. And when I was 25, I was just kind of like entrepreneurship build, build more of like a, like a S a solo quest, but now I'm opening up and realizing the importance of relationships. And I want to build my network and all these things.

[00:17:06] And I'm rereading this book and it's like, literally blowing my mind, even though I've already read the book. Right. And I'm going to read that book probably every quarter for the rest of my life at this point, because I've really identified how that matters so much, how people matter so much, how relationships matter so much.

[00:17:17] So that's the other thing, entrepreneurship people. You have to be able to motivate them, inspire them. You have to be able to learn how to praise them. A section in that book actually is like, and some I need to work on. You basically want to always avoid criticizing if you can, and only praise. And that's hard when you have employees and like, they just aren't doing what they need to do.

[00:17:34] And you repeat yourself 20 times. Like this is definitely a delicate thing to, to, to get right. But businesses of people. It's it's people game. Right? And so you have to really like people, you have to really, you know, figure out how to deal with them, how to motivate them, how to inspire them. Like, how do you handle people when they, when it's, when things screw up and they don't do what you said, even when you give them explicit instructions like us S you have to also become a stoic in a way, like you have to really detach what happens [00:18:00] around you, what people do from what you think they should have done and what results you want.

[00:18:03] And you have to always focus on. Okay. The only thing I can control is my thoughts and my actions. So this thing didn't work out the way I wanted it. Okay. So let's reevaluate instead, what you see people get stuck in victim mentality. They get stuck in woe is me. This person did this, or I did this. They get obsessed with, I lost this much money, whatever.

[00:18:21] They get, they get stuck in sucking costs, which is a fallacy that we, that we get stuck into where we invest a lot of money or time into something. And when it doesn't go our way, you know, we, we tend to be we're blind to what's happening. Maybe we should pull the plug or maybe we should try something else.

[00:18:33] Instead we just try to double down and do more of what's already not working because we're so stuck in the past. Like, like. The past doesn't exist. And I know we can get philosophical with this, but another thing about being entrepreneurship, like the, like, like having employees, having company, I'm not just talking to like solar solo, free freelancers or remote employees, like to be a real true entrepreneur, you have to become a philosopher.

[00:18:53] I mean, you just have to understand everything and it's, it's brutal and it teaches you things that you don't want to learn. And when you don't want to learn it, and it's just not something most people should do, to be honest. Right. But the things that make you a good entrepreneur entrepreneur make you good at life too.

[00:19:05] Right. So I just feel like. Mo all my entrepreneur friends are the most self-aware not necessarily happy, but like a lot of them can't find happiness in that way. Cause happiness is its own topic, but it does really get you good at life because it just forces you like iron sharpens iron, it forces you to deal with things that you probably wouldn't have done on your own.

[00:19:24]Michelle Hurn: [00:19:24] Yeah. And it sounds like it also forces you to really, like you said, to be able to not get emotionally overwhelmed, really separate emotion. And I agree with you. I think we constantly have to be looking forward. Like if you make a mistake, I think people really dwell on it. Or as opposed to, like you said, like saying, okay, what can we do next?

[00:19:38] It's like, well, we have to fix this. And all this time and energy here. And then you talked a little bit about failures and I know that's kind of a cliche, like, Oh, we have to learn from our failures, but I think it is key and it is crucial because we're all gonna make mistakes. We're all gonna have failures.

[00:19:51]You know, certainly like with writing a book you're gonna, you're gonna have edits and chapters. I'm

[00:19:54] Colin Stuckert: [00:19:54] sure with your negative feedback, you're going to get feedback that you're not gonna leave. Yeah.

[00:19:59] Michelle Hurn: [00:19:59] I feel like you [00:20:00] talked about it a little bit already. But I do also think that the one other thing I guess we can touch on a little bit is like leading people, you know, it is, it can be really challenging , to lead people.

[00:20:08] And a lot of people who you know, watch my YouTube,  they have businesses, they have employees, or they're trying to become somebody who leads people. So, yeah, I think you've touched on it, but can you touch just a little bit more on what you've learned about, you know, being a leader.

[00:20:20] Colin Stuckert: [00:20:20] Yeah. Hmm. So we just had a customer service issue that came up before the podcast that I was dealing with my main customer service person. And she kind of was accusing her. Right. And obviously I don't recommend doing things that are contentious over email or texts cause it's always worse. So that that's actually first principle don't ever send those angry emails.

[00:20:39] Those angry texts just don't do it. Or even if a borderline just don't do it. Talk to somebody peoples it's a tough one because everyone's. Personalities different everyone's style is different. But like I would go back to, to how to win friends and influence people. I mean, if you want to be, if you want to lead people, inspire them and just.

[00:20:56] Not make your life a living hell as an entrepreneur, you should read that book. Like every other leader, just over and over in Oregon. The second you finish that read again. Right. But some of the core things are you have to get people to want to do the things like if you want them to do something, you have to get them to want to do it almost as much or more than you want them to do it.

[00:21:11] Right. So you have to really, really focus on their perspective. You have to praise. As much as possible, right. And, and use positive reinforcement. Right. And you have to avoid negative reinforcement and CR and criticizing as much as possible. And that's really the hard thing. Cause I'm more myself focusing on problem solution.

[00:21:31] But when you're dealing with people, you can't always think like an entrepreneur, you have to think like an actual leader. Right. Because when you, when entrepreneurs get, have problems, We just, we go into analyzing mode. Like, we're just trying to figure this out. This is just, this is just a critical thinking data, like information, whatever, and then make, make a cold ruthless decision about what's the best course of action, right?

[00:21:49] With people though, people, people aren't analytical robots, right. They're emotional creatures. Okay. So you, you ha you cannot take that entrepreneurial brain and apply that to people. So I would [00:22:00] just say somethings I'm working on and you know, it's hard. It's like, It's hard to look back on the past, because hindsight is 2020.

[00:22:06] I can make up all these stories about things I did or didn't do. I don't know. This is honestly, for me been the hardest thing is the people part. And I actually tell people like, if you can avoid it, don't have employees. Right. And that I do believe, I do believe that. Right. And nowadays, you know, use remote, remote employees and contractors to do things like that.

[00:22:23] As much as you can, you use technology and leverage things and, you know, If, and when you have employees treat them very well spend the time to over, over, get, communicate, get them to understand what the mission is. The goals are. I think one thing from employees I remember reading recently is a lot of employees feel like they don't have direction.

[00:22:39] They're just like, I think as founders or managers, we have this idea, like the vision is clear to us, but it's not clear to employees. And we have to really, really communicate that to them and, and, and connect it to a bigger mission. Like, like how are we helping people? What difference is the company making thus your work is making right and really, really help and refine that and stay on top of that over time.

[00:23:01] And then, you know, culture is that thing. Building culture is tough. I guess the things I'm working on are more praise, less criticism, not being too kind of, you know, Entrepreneurial in my approach to employees, I have to really spend time and try to get them to understand and connect it to the larger mission, everything.

[00:23:21]And I mean, it's a tough one, honestly, like. You can probably tell I'm struggling with this because this is something I'm also learning and being aware too. But I mean, I guess if you remove your ego, if you can detach as much as you can from the emotions, emotional side of it, use a lot more questions.

[00:23:34] That's another one. So the Socratic method and using questions is this is just a thing that all humans should be doing more and businesses, even more important. We talk to people, we tend to talk at employees, we talk at vendors, we talk at customers. Like we want to tell them the things that we think are right or whatever.

[00:23:47] And like, they've done research on this. Most people you might tell them. A few sentences. They like remember one word or two out of the whole thing. Like the, I think the quote is something like the biggest barrier to communication is the kind [00:24:00] of illusion that it's actually happened. Right? Like most people don't actually hear what you say, but you think they did because you told them.

[00:24:05] Right. So that's what my best answer to that question. It's it's definitely a work in progress.

[00:24:09]Michelle Hurn: [00:24:09] Yeah. No, and that's really interesting. I've had just recently had worked in two different places. Like I recently left healthcare. I'm always at a particular hospital for a little over a year. And then I worked in a kind of small, local like betray place.

[00:24:22] And obviously it was so interesting. I mean, completely different environments going from a dietician for a center to basically an entry-level job, you know, making sausages, grinding up beads and tell you how different though, when the culture was. Like in, you know, when I was working in the small vitrine or, you know, boss would tell me like, Oh, Hey, good job.

[00:24:38] And everyone seemed to be kind of on the same page, common feeling as an employee, it was night and day different. You know, I, the hospital, I was kind of used to being getting like, Oh, I only heard things if I messed up, like, well, you didn't chart this or why did it belong? And so you kind of have this negative whatever, and it is really interesting, but yeah, that's that's and that's key.

[00:24:57] And I liked that. You said too, like, we do want to talk at people. I feel like often I have so much information. I'm so excited. This is what you need to. Versus maybe even asking questions like, Hey, what matters to you? Like, what do you, what do you think about this type of thing? So, yeah, no, that's That's great.

[00:25:10] And I also appreciate just your honesty, cause I sometimes think people would just get really bright eyed and bushy tailed about the end results. Like, Oh, I just want, I want to make a lot of money from this business versus like, well, do you really want to spend 12 hours a day reading, digging, you know, troubleshooting.

[00:25:24] So, you know, I mean, I'm interested in starting a business, writing a book, doing anything challenging. You know, I had someone to reach out to me and say, you know, I think I'm interested in running my first ultra marathon. And it was like, okay, well, it's not just like, it's not a hard script is right. There is a lot of work.

[00:25:39] And I do think that you know, a lot of people have to really, you kind of need to decide, like, do I love this? Am I invested in this? And then even like you said, giving it a trial, like if you think like, yeah, I'm all in, you don't have to take 30 days. Are you going to love, you know, reading these books, you know, finding out what it takes to maybe start a business, get alone, whatever it is to do.

[00:25:56] So. Yeah. Do you have any What else? Any other follow-up or any other thing

[00:25:59] Colin Stuckert: [00:25:59] you'd want [00:26:00] to add that, that you brought to mind? So the idea of the infinite game it's so it's so powerful now. Th the way I answered this and I've been answering this the past few months, I'm kind of figuring out what, what my next thing is.

[00:26:13] I've been thinking about getting into education coaching. There's a lot different things that I could do. My problem has always been too many ideas and not enough time. Right. And as I've, you know, become more wise as an entrepreneur, I've put the brakes on, whereas before I would just start things now I've been really like anything that I do, obviously with two kids now and all these different things.

[00:26:30] I'm very, very, very careful about what I start. And so I've been spending a lot of time thinking about this. The question that keeps coming up. And I've been asking myself this for years because I've always made the, you know, I've always believed that I wanted to have money be successful, but I also have known that I want to be happy and have like, I want to have peace of mind, and I want to have a, just a in control, calm life.

[00:26:51] I've, I've just recognized that early on. And I also recognize through different successes over the years, that money doesn't bring you that in a lot of times more money, as big as small says, it means more problems, more money, more problems. Right. And so I've been very, very aware of this. And the question that I want everyone to ask themselves is if you had a billion dollars in your bank account and you woke up tomorrow, okay, what would you do?

[00:27:12]So my answer to this question is even if I decided to do a bunch of traveling, like take a break for awhile, I would very quickly get bored and returned to my work. What work though, would I do? If I had a billion dollars right now think about it. If you had a billion dollars, what would you do on a daily basis?

[00:27:27] Would you go serve the poor? Would you go build the next Elon Musk company? Cause you want to like get to Mars faster, compete with him, right? Would you record podcasts every day or do YouTube videos every day or do content or write or read? And so that's actually my answer. I would do podcasts. I would actually be focused on spreading these big ideas that I've learned to help save people and give people the massive opportunity that is available before them in 2020, because I believe that a lot of the new cycle and a lot of the politics and the nonsense that goes on in this country and the media is rotting people's brain.

[00:27:59] And I think it's, it's [00:28:00] a travesty because they're gonna pass along those rotted bad ideas and behaviors to their kids. They're going to pass on the sickness as we know, being health preneurs. Right. We know that, you know, the hardest thing to overcome is, is your parents having crappy food and basically feeding that to you for years.

[00:28:15] And then you're 16 and you want to be lean and you've been set up for failure your whole life. Like that just breaks my heart. Right? So for me, it's like my infinite game is I want to help people change by breaking bad thought patterns. And creating new ones, replacing new ones. And so like my next, my next phase of my life is some form of education around that.

[00:28:35] And so I would still do videos. I would still do podcasts. I would still do my social media. Right. And do things like that. So every day, I do that, no matter what that's part of my morning routine, even though it's actually not generating any revenue right now, and it's loosely connected with my current business, but I know that it's an infinite game and I know the ideas matter and I know it's what I want to do anyways.

[00:28:55] And I would do anyways. So I'm already doing it. I'm already living it. And from there, what's great is like, when you do things, when you take action and you build a daily routine, And actually Scott Adams, the Dilbert guy, he's got a good quote on this. He talks about how like, goals are for losers, what you need is process.

[00:29:09] And that's another thing that's connected to infinite game because infinite game is you do it forever. So what does a process, a process about doing a goal is about getting somewhere, right? If you remove goals and you have process, you actually get places you can't even fathom and it'll blow your mind.

[00:29:23] Right. That's, what's so amazing about it, right? So if you could start your infant game today and you start playing that infinite game, you start doing things. You're going to get all these connections and opportunities that, that you could not have foresaw. Right. And that's kind of goes back to the idea of like, do you want to write a book or you want to have written a book?

[00:29:39] You don't actually want to write a book. Right? So start writing like literally after this, after this podcast, whatever, write your book and then keep that up for 30 days. And then your next goal should be 31 days and three to two. And then on and on and on your goal should be the process. The goal is actually getting somewhere.

[00:29:54] The goal should not even be to write a book. The goal should to become a writer. Because that's an infinite game, that's a process. And if you [00:30:00] truly fall in love with writing, you'll be successful. It might take you 20 or years, but at that point won't even matter because you'll have so ingrained the ha the process and you'll so be live playing your infinite game.

[00:30:11] That again, like the money, the accolades and all these things, they won't matter. The people that are most successful and most fulfilled. Right. In life are the people that are playing their infinite game and the money and the rewards and the accolades or whatever they see it comes in and goes, as it goes with everything.

[00:30:24] And it usually doesn't matter and they will keep doing it regardless if people are paying attention or not. And whether they have a bunch of money or not, but I promise you, there is a way for there to be 7 billion monopolies on the planet. There's, there's 7 billion personal brand, 7 billion individuals that are the best at being themselves.

[00:30:38] And that's what we need more of.

[00:30:40] Michelle Hurn: [00:30:40] Yeah, I, that, I mean, I don't, I don't think I have much to add to that. It's just this perfect. You know, so much of people people want to know, like, what's the secret, what's the secret. And it is it's time on task it's process. It's doing, you know, over and over and over again.

[00:30:53] It's not sexy. There's no like magical formula. And yeah, a lot of people will say like, Oh, I want to lose 50 pounds or, Oh, I want to write a book. I want to start a business. That, you know, that's really irrelevant. What you, what you should move you kind of thinking about is I want to sit down from eight to noon and write, and then take a break from till one and then write till five, you know, like actually setting up those habits, those processes, another really great book.

[00:31:13] I liked just the power of habit and I've read it several times and just. You know how crucial those are and how you can literally shift your entire life. You know, we think that everything we do is these like well thought out things, but a lot of things we do are just habit. So like teaching you how to create these habits to actually suit your life.

[00:31:27] And then, yeah, I was even thinking about my, my own running. You know, I did a, I did a ultra marathon this past November, and it was amazing. The whole process leading up to it was incredible. And the race went really well. But when it was over, like my first thought was like, okay, what's next? You know, it wasn't like, yay.

[00:31:41] This is a big bull. I'm done throw it away. It was like, you know, when you love something, you're just kind of like constantly looking forward, you know, constantly moving forward. So, yeah. That's awesome. Thank you so much for all of that.

[00:31:52] Colin Stuckert: [00:31:52] I have something to add on that, about your, about your running, that will help illustrate what we're talking about.

[00:31:55] So you're a runner thus running is your infinite [00:32:00] game. Yes, but you will play finite games within your infinite game. The final games are the races, right? So you can have goals, right. But they should be with only supporting and, or part a part of your infinite game. Right. That's kind of a way to think about this.

[00:32:14] Cause I'm not, I'm not saying you shouldn't have finite games, like yeah. Writing a book is a goal, but you know, really like the really good books are going to come from those that are writing as part of their infinite game. They're going to come from the real writers. You know, like if you, if you want to just have a book written, you should hire somebody like Tucker Max's company scribe and they'll interview and write a book for you.

[00:32:32] And it'll cost you 10 or $20,000, but you'll have written a book. Right. If it's just a marketing tool, that's fine. But if you actually, if you actually want to be a writer, right. And these are ways to think about it, like this is how you get to think about these things. There's nothing wrong with wanting to have written a book or have a published book, but it's probably not what you think you don't need to watch the podcast and like get advice from somebody like, like figure out if you want to be a writer or not test it out.

[00:32:54] Right. And then if that doesn't work, then find another Avenue and you can still find another Avenue to having a published book, but then be honest with yourself that you're not a writer and you're not like that's not gonna be your thing. That's fine. Okay now, so finally games, infinite games. You're a winner, no matter what, you'll probably do that forever for as long as your body will let you.

[00:33:12] Okay. And there was, there was another really good one in there that I forgot, but I'd go on for 10, just like that. So I'll kick it back to you.

[00:33:18]Michelle Hurn: [00:33:18] Cool, cool. Yeah, I mean, that, that's really all I had. Do you have anything else about your company? Like as far as your you know, the company that you started, do you have anything that you're looking forward to specifically in 2021?

[00:33:28] Any, any, like. You know, new products, any new developments, anything that you're, that you want to talk about?

[00:33:33]Colin Stuckert: [00:33:33] Yeah, we're, I mean, we're launching new products. Old timers came out with a couple of new, really high quality products that took us almost a year to develop. What I'm most excited about, about wild foods, which for those of you listening or watching it, I haven't, they don't know us.

[00:33:46]We source. Foods and supplements as close to nature as possible, based on like what I talked about the beginning of shows, like my real food methodology, like as close to nature as possible. Okay. That's what we do though in the, what I say have said for a long time now is [00:34:00] that I'm just trying to use high quality foods and supplements to educate real food, get that into your brain, get quality into your brain and also get habit into your brain.

[00:34:11] So a lot of things we're talking about, it's all connected because you know, if you. Are taking like a wild, multi that just came out for example, and you take that every day for three days or whatever, but then you're eating junk food or you're eating out all the time and seed oils and all these other things.

[00:34:23] Like you should not be spending any money on our products. You should be just eating real food, cooking at home. Then when you have that down, you can supplement had it to your diet to help you get to the next level and to build consistency around your routine. Right. So that for me, supplements and foods, and like these functional foods should be something that helps you build a consistent habit that is focused on quality, real nutrition, the way your, your biology is designed.

[00:34:49] And then, and then doing that forever, like turning that into your infinite game. Like that's like an infinite game for health. Like it should be based on cooking real food at the highest quality you can avoiding eating out as much as possible. Don't eat processed food, avoid sugar, avoid grains and seed oils.

[00:35:01] You know, and so what I'm most excited about is just getting that real food message and getting that, that, you know, that real habit that, you know, the ancestral mindset, I call it, getting outside, moving a little bit, you know, doing all the basics of what, of what makes a healthy human animal and doing that every single day forever.

[00:35:16] So, you know, I'm always hesitant to like recommend a product or do whatever. And I, I know that, you know, people sometimes like that, but really if, if I would say to answer that question in a very strange way, I would say if you're not already cooking every meal at home, Don't come to my website. Like, just focus on that.

[00:35:33] And then if you want a little bit support and we do have some salt that can help you with that and different products, then you come to the website and check out what we got.

[00:35:40]Michelle Hurn: [00:35:40] I appreciate that. I mean, that's a really honest answer. And I, I do think unfortunately, you know, having worked in healthcare for such a long time, many people will want to continue eating their really poor diet and just have a pill or a supplement like, you know, before you go, I mean, supplements are kind of at the top of the pyramid.

[00:35:55] Let's build with. So real food and then get some movement going. And then you, [00:36:00] like you said, establishing that, that habit of having those good supplements, but once you've gotten the other stuff well, cool. Yeah, no, that is that's fantastic. And we'll put, your website and all that and our YouTube channel.

[00:36:10] Colin Stuckert: [00:36:10] Right. Great. Well, Michelle, appreciate that. So is it my turn, right? Yeah. Okay. The dietician's dilemma. Yes. Okay. Give me the synopsis. And I probably pick something from what you tell me, and then we'll just, we'll just run from there for probably 20 minutes.

[00:36:26] Michelle Hurn: [00:36:26] Fantastic. So what the book is, it's called the dietician's dilemma and it starts with my personal story.

[00:36:32] So a little bit about my history. I actually had a really serious eating disorder when I was 12. I was five feet tall, 57 pounds. Ended up. In inpatient treatment for over two months was given about a 10% chance to survive. So pretty, pretty grim outlook. And you know, obviously it was able to kind of work through that, but it kind of gives my history.

[00:36:50] I always thought I'd write a, an entire book about what it's like to have anorexia. Cause it's just, it's. I've read some things, but I don't feel like anything has really gotten to like the absolute despair that we've had there. But, you know, I saw how powerful nutrition was, you know, I got, I got my, I started to get my health back, but I suffered with severe anxiety throughout my early adolescents.

[00:37:08]Ended up having osteoporosis in my early adolescents, as well. And you know, it was on some bone density, medications, and I actually started running. I started running in high school. I had gained enough weight to be able to participate in. Sports. And I just fell in love with it kind of had a knack for, it was very successful.

[00:37:24]Walked on to college running. But I was, you know, eating kind of the standard American diet. I was eating a lot of grains, a lot of carbs. I just thought I need these foods to really fuel my my life, my body. And I ended up having a pretty severe stress fracture in college. So that kind of ended my collegic running career.

[00:37:38] So I ended up becoming a dietician though. I wanted to help people with nutrition. And even through the dietetic internship, I saw things that didn't necessarily make sense. You know, I you know, you'd look people that just have been in a traumatic crack stent, and you'd flip over to feeding bags and you're like, should we be feeding people?

[00:37:53] You know? The first ingredients are like maltodextrin high-fructose corn syrup, canola oil, and should we be giving diabetics 90 grams of [00:38:00] carbs per meal and dosing them with insulin? And I was just immediately pegged as this like very difficult dietetic student, like, Oh, I I'll ask all these questions.

[00:38:07] And, but you know, you're young, so you just kind of go along with it. You but I, and I just struggled cause I, I, we had had patients come in and they just weren't getting better. You not have people, maybe they would, they beat 'em a little more fiber, a little whatever, and they might lose a little bit of weight, but in an acute care setting, we're not just seeing people that are overweight.

[00:38:22] I mean, I'm seeing wounds down to the bone, you know, amputations from diabetes, kidney failure. People with heart disease. And I had people that had strokes as young as the early forties. Just all kinds of things. And it kind of starts to break you. And, you know, during this time kind of my saving grace was my running throughout my early twenties and into my thirties, I ran 12 marathons qualify for Boston all the times, but then I really wanted to qualify for the Olympic trials.

[00:38:45] So I wanted to run under two 45. That's a six 17 pace. And I ran a two 54. So I was getting closer. But then all of a sudden, I just, I wasn't recovering from workouts. I, I go for a workout and it would take me days to recover. And I was waking up in the middle of the night with muscle pain. And so I'm like, what's going on?

[00:39:02] So I reached out to a few sports dieticians and kind of like, we talked about a little bit earlier with you. I they told me I needed more carbohydrates. I mean, I was eating 350 grams a day. They said, well, you need 400 or 500 grams. And I just doubled down. I doubled down on a very bad, easier. And, you know, as you can imagine well I would go out for runs and I would start getting cold sweats.

[00:39:22] I would come home and just feel dizzy and nauseous. I would go through my Workday. And even though I was eating so often, I was just chronically hungry. You know, I would have, I would starting that panic attacks. I mean, I'd always struggled with anxiety, but I was, I was genuinely feeling depressed and kind of like my come to Jesus moment.

[00:39:38] I woke up in the middle of the night, just like. Steering muscle pain and people ask me like, really you're running a lot. No, I was running about 20 miles a week at that point. So not very much. So two in the morning drive to seven, 11, get 30 pounds of ice, put it in the bathtub. I'm sitting in an ice bath now by this time it's like fucking in the morning.

[00:39:54] And so my wife comes in and is like, maybe we should do something differently. And it was like, yes, it is beyond [00:40:00] time to do something differently. And so I just decided like, look, I'm just not going to be a runner anymore. Like clearly I'm too old. I'm. You know, my body is broken. And at that point I thought, well, if I'm not going to be a runner, why not follow a ketogenic diet?

[00:40:12]Cause I knew kind of intuitively that eating all these carbohydrates was not making me feel good, but I just there's so much fear-mongering among, you know, the dietetic community and what the nutrition guidelines say. We need all these whole grains. And then I came across the carnivore diet, you know, just the all meats, all fat.

[00:40:27] And I thought like, what a great idea, why don't I do that for 30 days? Just with a goal of like, let's stop this muscle pain. And my wife was like, no, this is eating disorder. Like, this is not a good idea. So we thought about it. But I decided to do it, like, let's just, you know, get this 30 days. And after three weeks my wife actually said, can you come sit with me?

[00:40:45] And she said, you know, this is the best anxiety has been in the 11 years that I've known you. Like everything has started to level out. And at that point I honestly became very angry. You know, cause I, I was like, I I've healed so quickly. Like I no longer had muscle pain. I was having studied energy, my anxiety three weeks, three weeks.

[00:41:01] And I slept through the night. Athletes that hadn't happened in months. And just I decided, well, it's kinda funny. I wasn't running at all. And my wife she was, she appreciates reading and solitude was like, Hey, yeah, you're annoying me. You should go for a run. It's kind of jokingly said it. And I mean, not have been such a part of my identity for so long.

[00:41:19] And I kind of given up the idea of being a competitive runner. And so I just kind of joked, like, all right, I'm going to go jog around the block. I'll be back like a couple of miles. And I left the house and I ran for an hour, like easy, you know, zero carbs. And that's when the wheels started turning in my head.

[00:41:33] And I said like, what is going on? And so I decided I was just going to spend the next year of my life diving into the clinical trials. What, what do we know about low carb diets? Because all I'd ever heard as a dietician is maybe they're good if you have epilepsy, but there's, you know, they're dangerous, whatever.

[00:41:49] And I cannot believe how much research we had on specifically on diabetes. I mean, we can reverse type two diabetes and eat dates with a low carbohydrate diet. I mean, I have people in my office or in the hospital 20 [00:42:00] years, you know? And so, so yeah, so I decided, you know what, I'm going to pick conditions for the book.

[00:42:05] It goes through five chapter and you know, is my story, diabetes, mental disorders. I think we have a lot of anecdotal stories and evidence for like bipolar depression, anxiety, eating disorders. Once again, going back to like breaking the cycle of binge-eating and you know bulemia anorexia orthorexia sarcopenia.

[00:42:20] So muscle wasting in the elderly is a huge problem. Heart disease. There's so much fear-mongering around high LDL. And then I have a getting started chapter about 20 testimonies. I've had people reach out to me. So I have a little bit about my running and yeah, that's, that's, that's the book, you know, and my.

[00:42:36] It's got a happy ending. Obviously my, my, my childhood was, it was challenging, but I did run, like I said earlier in this podcast, I ran my first ultra marathon. It's supposed to be in may that got canceled. COVID then October it got canceled, but it did happen November 7th. I ran a six hour race. So it's just time, six hour, who can never run the furthest.

[00:42:55] I ran 44.6, three miles. So that's an eight Oh four pace for six hours and I won the race. So I went from a little over. Oh, not being able to run two miles and crippling crippled with anxiety. To ran 44.6, three miles and I'm the happiest I've ever been. And so my only goal kind of, like you said, I don't want to tell people what to think.

[00:43:17] You know, I have no stock in this game. People are welcome to get however they want, but I want people to have information in the option. You know, I've interviewed a lot of people from my channel in these testimonies. I want people to know there's a different way. You can eat differently and it can completely transform your health.

[00:43:32] You know? So that's, that's the book.

[00:43:34] Colin Stuckert: [00:43:34] Yeah. Let's just take a moment to talk about dogma, indoctrination and the status quo bias. Okay. Now this no matter where, you know, you're gonna apply all these ideas. To what's happening in 2020, but we won't even go there. But if you look at the medical establishment, right.

[00:43:51] Which a lot of people call sick care. Okay. Multi multi-billion dollar industry, right? Like, like, and let's be clear. It's profit driven industry. [00:44:00] Okay. That's what people don't realize. The thing is like altruistic or something. No hospitals make tons of money. Pharmaceuticals make profit for shareholders.

[00:44:08] Okay. So you, you immediately have. Yeah, exactly. You have a profit incentive to keep things the way they are. Okay. And so like, what's crazy is how we have so many people that don't get better that try everything. And then they get to the point where, because the pressure is so strong, you got to the point where you thought you had to just stop running because you couldn't do anything about it because you're trying to fit your, your life, your body into their paradigm.

[00:44:37] That we obviously know is completely broken and backwards for the human animal. That's how strong though. I sort of want people to realize it. That's how strong that human persuasion and cognitive bias is. Okay. It is unbelievable. Be strong. I mean, we have tons and tons of research of this in other fields, psychology, whatever.

[00:44:57] We even have research and medical and, and, and, and like you mentioned, we have low-carb research or whatever. We have tons and tons of research, but you have cherry picking and you have dogma literally makes people blind. And so there's a, there's an Upton Sinclair quote that I always remind people of. He said, never expect a man to understand something.

[00:45:14] If the salary depends on not understanding it. The hospitals that were supposed to be overwhelmed earlier this year while they weren't. Right. Whatever, like, and so it's just like, you can, you can pull on any thread. In anything that has billions of dollars at play that's and that's, that's accepted by the masses.

[00:45:29] Anything that is common knowledge that the masters think like, let's say the fat hypothesis, low fat, or how carbs are good, how grains are healthy. Right. All these ridiculous ideas that we S we, we have proven in my, my book, we've proven it because we have people I've had Mikayla Peterson, I've other people in the pockets that literally reverse their health.

[00:45:46] To me, these people should be studied. Right. And they should be in published peer reviewed journals, but they're not in that. And they probably never will be. Because they're not following the academia medical route or whatever, and they'll never get [00:46:00] used as case studies. Like literally never. I had people on my YouTube channels that tell me, you probably do 50 pounds eating carnival.

[00:46:06] I lost 50 pounds, 50 pounds is the difference between saving your life and probably dying in a few years. I mean, for some people,

[00:46:12]Michelle Hurn: [00:46:12] diabetes,

[00:46:13] Colin Stuckert: [00:46:13] like all kinds of things that. It's incredible, but, but what I always, every time I get the comment, I get kind of sad because they're not ever going to be used as an end variable and an experiment.

[00:46:23] They're not going to use it as a data point to show us what the truth is. And I just obviously want to talk about stuff. It just really boils my blood in a way. Maybe you want to comment on that.

[00:46:35] Michelle Hurn: [00:46:35] Yeah, no, I, I totally a hundred percent hear that, you know, and I, I experienced the exact same thing. You don't want to interview people.

[00:46:41] They say like, I wish I would've known. And here it is. Like when I, when I would talk, when I started to learn about low-carb when I had my health significantly shift, I was still working as a dietician in the hospital. And so, you know, it's super excited about it. Like, I can help these people. I know better now.

[00:46:56] And I was told immediately, like, you are not, this is not the hospital. That

[00:47:00] Colin Stuckert: [00:47:00] should be against the law. I felt that should be against the wall. That should be all practice. It just makes me so angry. Yeah.

[00:47:04] Michelle Hurn: [00:47:04] And I think came and said, Hey, look, I have these clinical Childs here. Like, let me show you. I mean, like I said, we, we have, we've been able to, in eight days we can start to resensitize the human body to insulin, you know, we can reverse diabetes in two weeks, but you know, if, if we heal you, we lose you as a customer.

[00:47:19] If we kill you, we lose you as customers. Right in the middle. And so I've, I mean, I've been, I don't like to, I don't wanna, I'm not trying to brag about this, but I've been suspended twice just because I, I,

[00:47:29] Colin Stuckert: [00:47:29] it is a brag to my audience. It's a brag. Good for you.

[00:47:32]Michelle Hurn: [00:47:32] I heard and told and you know, but yeah, you have to just stay in line, but you know, here's what here's, what would hopefully be encouraging to your audience is I've had a lot of dietitians reach out to me and say, I hear you.

[00:47:42] I want to be part of this aired because at my hospital, just like every other hospital won't allow me. But I'm hoping that as a dietician, like getting this book out there, can, you know, other people at least can read it. Can we get this conversation started? Can we start? Cause sometimes it just takes somebody and I know we have, we have so many great people like civic, Kayla Peterson and [00:48:00] FAFSA, nutrition, coalition.

[00:48:01]You know, there's a lot of Amber O'Hearn people that are saying, like, we got to start talking about it. And so I'm hoping when people, you know, will read my book and say like, Oh my gosh, A dietician is saying this. I kind of feel this way too, because I've talked to nearer dieticians and they tell me they're like, Michelle, I don't know what to do.

[00:48:20] And I was there too. Cause it's like, it's not cheap to become a dietician. You need your four year degree. You have student loans,

[00:48:24] Colin Stuckert: [00:48:24] you go through status quo, bias, it's set up in a way to perpetuate it.

[00:48:28] Michelle Hurn: [00:48:28] Exactly. And so, you know, when I left, when I left healthcare, it was just like, Holy cow. Like I'm probably not going to be able to get a job where I make that type of money, but.

[00:48:37] It becomes like, I, I couldn't be like my first thing in, in medicine, like do no harm. I was, I was part of a system. And so it's like, I have to, I have to take a step back and I have to advocate for what I believe in. And I want to, you know, I want to help people. So, but yeah, dogma is very powerful. Like I also shared that I've worked in now for different, cause I worked in two different psychiatric facilities and it's like shameful.

[00:48:59] I mean, we feed psychiatric patients. The average is about 325 carbs, about 38 teaspoons of sugar a day diabetics, about 225 grams of carbs a day. And that's, you know, but my dieticians. And the four places I worked with, and this is not trying to shame or make fun of anybody, but 60% of the dieticians I work with are obese, not overweight.

[00:49:21] Colin Stuckert: [00:49:21] Yeah. I know. I've seen it in college. Like the one course I went to nutrition. She was overweight. Yeah. And here's the,

[00:49:28] Michelle Hurn: [00:49:28] here's the deal. I talked to another on another podcast yesterday and I think that what dieticians, what happens, you've accepted that dogma to be true. And you know, when we eat in this way, when we eat all these healthy whole grains, you're going to be storing fat.

[00:49:38] Well, you almost kind of accept this mediocrity. Well, it's just like, Oh, just eat sugar and moderation. You know, I'm chubby, you're chubby. It's good. Like, we start to accept this mediocre life and I'm kind of worried that it almost becomes this like this almost kind of like, I don't want to say like whole like acceptance, but that's kinda what dogma does

[00:49:53] Colin Stuckert: [00:49:53] its groupthink.

[00:49:54] Michelle Hurn: [00:49:54] Yeah ,groupthink, to where. You know, like I said, I can come, I came to my clinical [00:50:00] director and said, here are the trials. Here are the studies. Here's what I'm concerned about. You know, I pointed out to her a medical director. I I oversaw the rehab floor and not like drug rehabilitation, but like even in a traumatic accident or burns, you know, you go to like, get to get stronger.

[00:50:13] And I. Verifying trend, the people who were coming in who'd had a stroke. And I just, I kept a percentage over the three months I was there because I just saw so much of it. People age, as young as 42, up to 68 were they were on Statens. And so 68% of people that came in with a stroke were on statins.

[00:50:31] And, you know, I brought this to our medical director and they told me like, when I got my medical license to come back, like basically just like get outta here, you know? But yeah, it's really terrifying. And you said that the medical profession. I think a lot of us, you know, most people that I talked to, I would actually say, all people I've talked to.

[00:50:48] When you become a doctor, you become a nurse, you become anything in health. You genuinely want to help. Like you get it. Some, and it's so profoundly broken. I mean, you have so many people to see, you got five minutes to see somebody to get insurance reimbursement, you have to chart for like half an hour.

[00:51:03] So you're not really even given time to help somebody. And then as the petition, I was just told, like, we're just as long as they're eating protein calories, it's fine. If it's sugar water, it's fine. If it's yellow, it's fine. Like. It, it, it, it starts to break you. Yeah. It's, it's,

[00:51:17] Colin Stuckert: [00:51:17] It's not going to change from the inside though.

[00:51:19] That's what people, you know, that's just, unfortunately, and that's what

[00:51:22] Michelle Hurn: [00:51:22] I really thought. That's why I thought we have to grassroots. And, you know, I, I started when I started my Instagram and I was like, you know what, I'm just going to start posting what I'm doing and try to advocate. And I'm just grateful that it's kind of started, like, there's a lot of like minded people, you know?

[00:51:32] And I think. To get them the message out. I think more people talking about it. But you're not going to see the medical industry change. Cause I think, I mean, you nailed it. I don't think people fully understand how much money. Like I think, I think we kind of maybe know like, Oh yeah, you know, there people make money off insulin and stuff.

[00:51:48] There is so much money.

[00:51:51] Colin Stuckert: [00:51:51] We don't even know what a billion dollars is like a billion. I think it's something like w for human life. I think it's like a billion seconds is like 30 years or something. [00:52:00] Yeah, right. So we like all on average might, if we're lucky to have 3 billion seconds of life, 3 billion bill Gates, 50 billion, right?

[00:52:08] Like we have no idea that the pharmaceutical industry and medical combined, I mean, that's gotta be over hundreds of billions, like an unbelievable amount. I think, I think healthcare is like a trillion dollar GDP for the United States. Like a trillion. We can't even fathom again, the human mind can't even comprehend it.

[00:52:25] Like you're going to tell me that with that kind of money at play. That there's not an incentive. Like some people will call it. Oh, you're just being conspiracy theorists, like, wait a second. Art is their incentive. Is there at least incentive from a financial perspective? Yes, there is. Let's let's be clear on that.

[00:52:38] Is there a profit motive? Yes, of course there is. Right. People want to demonize someone like Amazon because they think they're doing this or whatever. And it's like, even though they're just servicing customers and then you hit and then, but they're not going to demonize big pharma and doctors because they think they're there to like help people.

[00:52:51] It's unbelievable. In fact, the reason that is, is because. Medical and pharma have been marketing billions of dollars using marketing dollars for years to make the masses believe that doctors know everything. And you should never question them. It's built into marketing and research and cherry picking for years now, you know, like, and it's just, it's sad.

[00:53:11] So

[00:53:11]Michelle Hurn: [00:53:11] on the Academy of nutrition, you always like to talk about this. They used to be called the American dietetics association. There's the governing board of all dietitians. I mean, their number one sponsors are PepsiCo Frito-Lay. Yep. And I've been told over and over that, it's like, Oh no, it's fine.

[00:53:26] It's not a conflict of interest. It's like, and here's the thing. Like somebody, a dietician like emailed me and said, Michelle, you know, cause I had mentioned that, I thought this is a conflict of interest. They said, Oh, I've never seen a dietician go into a patient room and tell him to drink a Pepsi. And it's like, well, of course not.

[00:53:41] That's not what they're buying. You know, when they, when they support the dieticians, they're not telling, they're not buying the fact that dieticians are going to go in and give a Pepsi. What they're buying is that dieticians, when the patients. Steve you, you're going to be like, Oh, it's fine. Haven't moderation.

[00:53:54] You know, it's no big deal.

[00:53:55]Colin Stuckert: [00:53:55] A moderate.

[00:53:56]Michelle Hurn: [00:53:56] And number two is the human body can't regulate, you know, [00:54:00] moderate carbohydrates. So,

[00:54:01] Colin Stuckert: [00:54:01] well, the, the quantity versus quality, right. And everything we talked about with my light bulb moment was, was quality. Yeah. Like if you have quality quantity, mostly doesn't matter because it takes care of itself.

[00:54:14] Like tell me that you can just eat like 10 apples and stuffs like steaks down your throat. Like, like your, your, your society kicks in well before, is it isn't even an issue. Right. Whereas processed, refined, highly palatable carbs. You can eat a whole bag and you're like, wait a second. Why am I still hungry?

[00:54:31] This doesn't make any sense. Right? Like, it's like, Oh man. I mean, Coca-Cola actually funded the organization. I believe they're called the energy balance organization. And they're suppose to be like a nonprofit that promotes the idea that energy balances, all that, all that matters. Right.

[00:54:45]Michelle Hurn: [00:54:45] That's just the crazy, I think once again, I always encourage people to use common sense, critical thinking and that's something.

[00:54:51] Oh far away from, I think, you know, you see something posted on Facebook or Instagram and you're like, that's fact, but it's like the energy balance equation that says, like, if I have 500 calories of donuts, that's going to have the same effect on my body as 500 calories of steak that doesn't use some critical thinking.

[00:55:04] I mean, it just, yeah. It's it's really incredible. And it's, it's interesting because you know, nutrition and dietetics community has really demonized things like meat and fat, you know, and it's like, those are the things that'll keep us healthy. So they're telling us not to eat those things, but then another saying, have this cereal, you know, general mills is another number one sponsor.

[00:55:23] Real and have this, you know, chips and have this, all this stuff. And it's just, it doesn't even make sense and it just hurts my heart, but then you'll try to bring it up to other dieticians. And it's just, there's such a cognitive dissonance there that they just, they can't get it. Yeah. It's

[00:55:36] Colin Stuckert: [00:55:36] only, it's only when patients and it's only when potential patients.

[00:55:39] Stop going or start demanding difference. And it's only when the market speaks to free market. Like just when the dollars aren't there anymore to give people pharmaceuticals and put them in medical. Like, and I don't know if that's going to happen anytime soon to be honest. In fact, my theory on this was probably a good place to close out is that we're going to see.

[00:55:58] And this is a, maybe a 500 year [00:56:00] timescale. I don't know, but we're going to see a divergence of humans of, of, of the human species. We're going to see human. Let's say 1.0, right. Like that is kind of getting sick in our modern environment. And we're going to see human 2.0, that is taking technology and the ability to cook food.

[00:56:14] And I mean, literally the ability to eat the perfect food everyday, you can source it from all over the world. Our ancestors never had this ability and we can use things like intermittent fasting, cold therapy, ice therapy, like meditation, mindfulness, the amount of things that, that a healthy. Motivated person has to be healthy and to thrive.

[00:56:30] And, and even to connect this to profession, making money and acquiring resources is unbel. I mean, it's the most the human animals ever had. Absolutely. But only a small percent of modern humans are taking advantage of this. They're just defaulting to what everyone is doing with the masses. Let's say, and they're getting sick right.

[00:56:46] Alongside them. And so you're going to have a world where it's a literal Wally. Where you have the, the, the Disney movie Wall-E where everyone's overweight or whatever. And the old chairs run around. I think that the more likely scenario is if science doesn't somehow fix this, maybe we will, we will have an intervention.

[00:57:00] I don't know. Maybe science will somehow invent something where we can, you know, we can, we can eat whatever we want and we can be healthy. That might happen. Right. But for now, it's not, it's not in the it's in the cards what's likely to happen is unfortunate. This is the hard truth. Again, homosapien 1.0, that's going to keep devolving in our modern environment.

[00:57:19] Well, I mean, unfortunately, they'll, they'll devolve a die off their offspring will, this will happen over a longer timescale and you'll have homosapien 2.0, but they will either. They will probably enslave human safety and one point, Oh, if you actually look at a long enough time scale, and it's actually really scary stuff, you can get into sci-fi stuff.

[00:57:33] Books written that have predicted this, right? Like the red rising, the rads, the goals it's really scary stuff. But what bothers me the most about this is how the younger generation has no control over it. It's completely up to their parents. And if you have hundreds of millions of Americans that just either don't care or they're misinformed, some combination of the two, usually those kids are gonna grow up in a terrible [00:58:00] environment, their genes and epigenetics that we know like it's gonna are going to be haywire.

[00:58:04] And then they're going to grow up with eating disorders, mental problems comparison problems from social media. They're going to get bullied like it is. Quite literally the real virus of our society is the sickness of the mind and body of our society. And it's, it's, you know, unfortunately this other virus has taken everyone's attention.

[00:58:23] That shouldn't even be a thing. And it wouldn't have been a thing if the real sickness of society, mind, and body, if that was taken care of that other virus would even matter. So I think that's a good place to end it. Any closing remarks?

[00:58:37] Michelle Hurn: [00:58:37] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I, I share a lot of your, you know, similarities. I definitely worry about, you know, I've got nieces and nephews That this generation is, , if we're not getting them, the good high quality foods and we're not teaching them, like one thing I absolutely actually probably worry about even more than the food is just the mental resilience.

[00:58:54] You know, these generation, I talk a lot, a little bit in my book, like the, the rate of bipolar disorder, anxiety and depression among our young people, you know, diseases of. People that are are deaths of despair committing suicide is just off the charts. So yeah, I share your concern. I mean, I'm hopeful that we can continue to discuss movement and we can just be part of the people that are leading the way.

[00:59:13] So thank you very much.

[00:59:14] Colin Stuckert: [00:59:14] Yup. Yup. Appreciate you coming on as well. And for going on your show as well, and all the links will be  below my end. I assume they'll be on your end too. So it's been a blast. Thank you so much.