Joining us today is one of Colin's personal heroes, Joel Salatin! Joel and his family own and operate Polyface Farm in Virginia's Shenandoah Valley, producing salad bar beef, pig aerator pork, pastured poultry and forestry products. Author of 14 books and international speaker, he is the editor of Stockman Grass Farmer magazine, the world's premier publication promoting pasture-based livestock. On this episode of the Better Human Podcast, Joel and Colin go over correct, humane and sustainable farming practices, their impact on the nutritional value of livestock, and more. Tune in to find out!
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About Show: The Better Human Podcast is a show dedicated to the pursuit of Building Better Humans. Hosted by Colin Stuckert, Entrepreneur, Thinker, and Better Human Builder. We are obsessed with finding ways to become better. We are PRO HUMAN and celebrate the collective human experience. We bring on human guests to teach, share, and learn.
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[00:00:00] Grass-finished beef. Forexample, in general has 300% more riboflavin than grain finished beef, thenfeedlot finished beef. Well, what's the importance of riboflavin. Riboflavin isthe calming essential fatty acids. It's what keeps you emotionally? No.
[00:00:30] so we're here with someone whoneeds no introduction is Joel. Salitan welcome to the show. One of Colin'sheroes. Thanks for being here. Thanks for having me. It's a pleasure. So, Joel,you got a new book. I've read a few other books though. This one seems a littledifferent. So can you just kind of start with that?
[00:00:48] Well, sure. It starts out beingdifferent because it's coauthored. And, um, my partner in crime is Dr. SiennaMcCullough, who is a PhD, a [00:01:00] chemist nutritionist, kinda of personwho actually at about, uh, 31 or 32 was planning her funeral. Uh, due to, tojust acute auto-immune diseases and, and stuff, she couldn't even get up offthe floor.
[00:01:13] And she just had this kind ofepiphany that, that she decided, you know, I'm going to quit depending ondoctors and depending on everybody else and I'm, I'm going to fix me. And soshe used her PhD status to research and changed her diet, changed her life,changed her attitude. And now she's a vibrant Energizer bunny, 41 year old thatis just coaching people into health.
[00:01:39] And so we actually did apresentation together. We never met, and I was completely captivated by whatshe was saying. She was captivated by what I was saying. And we found ourselvesin the crowd after the presentation, she said, let's do a book together. And soI said, yeah, why not? And so this has never been done, you know?
[00:02:00] [00:02:00] So it's done as aconversation, a dialogue between a farmer. And a nutritionist PhD. And so shebrings that part of it, the nutrition side, the chemistry side to it, and Ibring, well, what does that look like? What does that look like down on thefarm? So, so we we've been able to connect this whole, you know, from literally,literally from the soil to the plate, in a continuum for people to bring themto a place of ultimate health.
[00:02:29] We call it maximum health,wherever they are. If they're starting at a Sheetz gas station or at a healthfood store or wherever it is, uh, there's no judgment. Everybody starts fromsomeplace. And so we coach you to help. Yeah, we had her on the show. It wasactually a very awesome conversation. It got cut off every 15 minutes and shehopped right back on, but it was still a fun show and her story is reallyfascinating.
[00:02:53] And so our audience willprobably listen to her before this. So that will be a good followup. You'vebeen at this health thing for awhile though, because you've [00:03:00] been,you know, at first it was like farming and then obviously many connectionbetween like growing real foods, farming, health, all the things that you'vebeen writing books about it, you know, you've been writing books about thelegality of the farming business.
[00:03:10] There's just so many differentrabbit holes to go down with this book. What's like the primary message. You'rejust trying to get out to people. Cause I, you know, there's a lot out thereand people are overwhelmed with information. Sure. Well, I think the primarymessage, I mean, obviously the title is a, is beyond labels.
[00:03:26] And so the primary message is togo beyond labels to pull that curtain back, if you will, and empower people tofeel confident of the food decisions that they make. If all you know about yourfood is what's written on the label, you probably don't know very much aboutit. Labels are profoundly misleading.
[00:03:45] They do a lot of clever speak.And there are a lot of things that you would expect from a label that, that youdon't see, things that you see that you think they mean one thing sometimes.And they often means something else and essentially the government ain't gotyour back. [00:04:00] And so we need to have our backs.
[00:04:02] And so the idea of the book isto bring us to a place of confidence in our food decisions. Yeah. So let's takeus back real quick. You've been doing this thing for a long time. I mean,you've, I mean, how long have you been farming and writing and, and kind ofpromoting these ideas? Oh, well, you know, I mean, I grew up here.
[00:04:19] I was four years old when wecame, I had my first chickens when I was 10. And so if we start from there, youknow, it's over half a century that I've been farming, growing something. Soyou've been watching this evolution of kind of, you know, like small localfarms supplying their communities to big agribusiness and whatever, I mean, isthat part of, what's kind of inspired you to, to want to speak up and to helppromote change.
[00:04:41] I mean, you just watch thishappen right in front of your eyes for the most part. Well, yeah, through,through my life. Time. I mean, I can remember when there was no Tyson. I canremember. Oh, wow. I can't remember when Smithfield, uh, well, of course Ihadn't been long ago. Smithfield was owned by Americans, but homemade cottage,cheese [00:05:00] and butter and buttermilk and home processed beef andchicken.
[00:05:05] And I mean, that was all legalback in the sixties and early seventies, you know, you could actually do this.And then we watched the erosion of those freedoms, which coincided with theamalgamation of the industrial industry, the regulations and the centralizationof the food system, the regulations from the government and the, thecentralization of the food system, you know, went hand in hand coupled with theconsumer convenience factor where people started coming out of the kitchen andthinking, you know, kitchens are for.
[00:05:35] Homemakers are unsophisticated.
[00:05:41] You survived through thisthough. Cause it seemed like during the consolidation, I mean, like we'retalking, thousands of farms went out of business and there was like the farmcrisis and all these different things. I'm I don't know much about the history,but I do, it does seem like the consolidation of the food industry had a lot ofpolitical and financial, you know, nefarious backing behind it.
[00:05:58] So like, did you do something[00:06:00] differently to this time where you just were able to adapt and saysmall. Yeah. Well, the main thing that we did, first of all, we work withnature's templates. So we looked at, you know, what, what's the anxious horsethat won this race? Well, it's not feedlots and it's not factory farms.
[00:06:14] It's animals actually movinganimals, moving outdoors, animals, moving outdoors on pasture. You know, you,if you can layer these things on. As you, as you start looking at nature'stemplate and, and, and lots of different kinds of animals in the same pasturemoving throughout the seasons. And so when you look at nature's template, if Icould call it the horse, that's been winning races for a long, long time.
[00:06:39] It's those templates that webegan mimicking. Guess what? We don't buy chemicals. We don't buy chemicalfertilizers. It takes less. Equipment. It takes less capital. It's lessfragile. It's more resilient. We don't have better. A vet bills. The animalsare healthy. They have immune systems and the diet makes them [00:07:00] tastebetter.
[00:07:00] So there's a sales opportunityfor people who care about what their food tastes like, handles light and thenutritional components of it. So we began direct marketing and we built acustomer base and a brand name and began becoming a final retailer. Yeah. Wasthere a draw to industrialize go big? Like, did you ever get approached fortheir opportunities?
[00:07:22] Like, were you watching otherfarmers get picked, you know, do big operations and think, Oh man, I want to dothat. Or was it just like, you always kind of thought differently? Well,fortunately, you know, I have a legacy of thinking differently. My grandma, mydad's father, my grandfather was a charter subscriber to Rodale's organicgardening and farming magazine.
[00:07:40] And so, you know, my dad kindof, uh, you know, ecological bent from him and I got it from dad. And so, youknow, we just. We just had a, a real clear, true North belief base. Yeah. Andremember when, you know, when I came back to the farm full time, starting outdad was an accountant, [00:08:00] but he never made a living from the farm.
[00:08:01] Neither did mom, but they're allfarm jobs paid for the land, which of course is a very common thing andstartups. And so I can remember early on, you know, Theresa and I were livingin the attic on $300 a month driving a $50 car. T V still don't have a TV. Ifwe didn't grow it, we didn't eat it. We had our own firewood.
[00:08:22] So we had our own heat and, youknow, we were just living one time. I probably came home and was talking aboutthe neighbor's big John Deere tractor or whatever. And he just looked at me andhe said, I never knew who his clients were, who his accounts wereconfidentiality, but he just would say those big guys.
[00:08:40] He would say we're actuallyfinancially more secure and resilient than they are. They're turning lots ofmoney, but they're not keeping that much. Yeah. Yeah. So, okay. I wanted tomake a show practical for people you hear a lot about, they say, get to knowyour farmer. Right. But even myself, only the [00:09:00] last few years Istarted going to farmer's markets.
[00:09:01] And then I met a local farmer inAustin who I get my grass-fed beef from bill. And I went up to his property afew times, but it's not a very obvious path to go from, like never been tofarmer's market and wanting to get to know my farmer. So like, what are, what'ssome advice for people and what are some questions to ask?
[00:09:16] How do you really get to knowyour farmer? I mean, I can tell you right now with the pandemic, we're actuallyencouraging our customers and people who aren't our customers to come to thefarm, just for recreation, for whatever, you know, entertainment, let theirkids play in the Creek, build a dam in the Creek.
[00:09:35] Um, walk around the pond, uh,watch the frogs jump in, you know, watch the dragonflies. I mean, there's,there's a tremendous amount of, of just emotional. Satiation and, and balanceand connecting to our, our ecological umbilical. And it's not a theme park.Doesn't cost you anything. So I think the critical element here and connectingto your farmer.
[00:09:58] Is to want to do it [00:10:00]or to see the need for it. Yes. And as soon as you say, you know, I think I'dlike to know where those potatoes came from, or I can know where those eggscame from. As soon as you have an interest in that, the actual logistics ofworking it out are not that difficult. You know, you've got a cart and you'vegot a brand name monitor, you know, you've met somebody at farmer's market.
[00:10:18] You met a friend that told youabout this, this farmer. And you just, you just call them up or you, you turnoff Netflix and you head out there, you know? Um, and you're not, you're notgoing to Disney world right now. So, you know, you've got time on your handsand just go out for a visit. So what are you looking for?
[00:10:36] Well, first of all, a good farmshould be aesthetically and aromatically, essentially romantic. You know, if,if you're walking around holding your nose, saying, Ooh, this stinks and it'sugly. It's probably not a good farm. And, and it's like that kind of vettingthat vetting skill is like any skill. And, uh, you'll be a novice at first.
[00:10:56] Like you were, when you were inkindergarten, trying to learn how [00:11:00] to read. But after you, after youvisit three or four, some commonalities start, you know, start, start showingup is the farm welcoming, you know, here at our farm, we have a 24 seven opendoor policy unannounced. Anyone can come from anywhere in the world anytime tosee anything, anywhere unannounced.
[00:11:19] That's our commitment. That'sthe transparency. I've heard some people say, if you go to farmer's market andyou buy from a farmer, Three times. And that farmer doesn't invite you to thefarm. Probably not a very good farm. It's like a little, it's like a litmustest. Yeah. So as you start to interact, you'll start getting intuition andhunches about, Oh yeah.
[00:11:44] That guy seems trustworthy. Oh,that guy has got it. Yeah. He's a smooth talker, but I'm not sure. It's allwas. Great. Thank you. Go visit. If you see a bunch of bare dirt, if you see abunch of chickens out, you know, on, on bare ground, if it just looks unkemptlike a, you know, a rat [00:12:00] hole, it might be something that you havewant to have second thoughts about.
[00:12:04] Yeah, that's great. That'sgreat. So what's the point to all this? You know, like we tell people theyshould care about their food. They, they should probably get in the kitchen.They should, they should do these things. And generally, most people, they justwant to feel good and they want to look good. Right.
[00:12:17] So what would you say to kind ofconnect that, to talking about knowing your food going on a farm, you know, togoing beyond labels into that end goal? Yeah, well, that's right. People dowant to feel good and look good. And so the obvious question is, well, whatkind of fuel. I mean, we can, we can use all sorts of metaphors.
[00:12:40] I mean, an interesting one isfuel in your car. If you want your car to feel good, you don't put a bunch of crappygasoline in it. You want good stuff. And the same thing is with your, you know,with your body, you want to, you want to put in the good stuff. Well, does itreally make a difference? Yes, it does make a difference.
[00:12:57] I mean, we've, we've participatedin numerous [00:13:00] empirical studies over the years. I can give you onewith mother earth news commissioned in about eight years ago, we, uh, alongwith 11 other farmers in the U S sent our eggs to a lab, and I think it wasOregon and they've checked for about 10 different nutrients.
[00:13:18] One of them was folic acid. Forexample, it's really important for pregnant women and the actual official USDAlabel on eggs says that they contain 48 micrograms of folic acid per. Ag andour eggs average 1038 micrograms brig. It's incredible. We're not, we're nottalking about 10% deviations here.
[00:13:40] Grass-finished beef. Forexample, in general has 300% more riboflavin than grain finished beef, thenfeed lot finished beef. Well, what's the importance of riboflavin? Well,riboflavin is the calming essential fatty acids. It's what keeps youemotionally balanced. And so, you know, People like me that are in the[00:14:00] business, you wonder, well, what makes kids, you know, shoot up kidsat school?
[00:14:03] What makes road rage? What makespeople go bonkers? They're not getting enough riboflavin and, uh, you know,conjugated, linoleic acid. I mean, it only takes only takes two weeks of grainfeeding on an herbivore to show the conjugated linoleic acid CLA out of theirbody. What's the importance of CLA well, CLA is what keeps the synopsis.
[00:14:25] Um, the synapsis flexible. So asyou age your synapses, where the, you know, the nerve endings, uh, jump acrosslike little electric, electric connections, uh, those, those tend to get morebrittle and, um, And more rigid over time, which then reduces the, the whipaction and the, you know, the, uh, the performance of the synopsis.
[00:14:52] And so, you know, CLA is, is, isvery critical in that. I mean, the, the Omega three Omega six, um, balance.[00:15:00] Is is critical as well. And, and, and the, the single biggest way tobalance out, uh, omega-3 Omega six is with salad is with green material, high,high carotene diets. You have to realize that, you know, 98% of the food of theanimal, uh, animals grown in this country are grown in a high stresssituations.
[00:15:30] B then this, you know, fecalparticulate, which stimulates you E coli salmonella all the same. I think oneof the most interesting things that we've actually learned, we service about,we serve as a lot of restaurants, about 50 of them. And one of the things thatwe've learned, uh, from our restaurants consistently, and this, this has justbeen going on for years and years, is that all of our meats.
[00:15:53] Cook about 20% faster than theindustrial counterpart. Doesn't matter whether it's pork, beef, [00:16:00]chicken doesn't matter 20% faster. Well, why is that? Well, there's a couple ofreasons, but I think the single biggest reason is because our animals are neverstressed in a, in a industrial confinement factory farm situation.
[00:16:16] Those animals. Are stressedevery single day, 24, seven, three 65. Well, they don't live three 65, but youput their stress every single day of their life. When you're stressed, yousecrete, adrenaline's a dress. You pick up a car from somebody when it tips onthem. It, you know, adrenaline is what makes you be able to run faster when abear is chasing you.
[00:16:40] And so stress. Great. So thisadrenaline and adrenaline, adrenaline is not relaxing. It makes you moremuscular. It's a, it's a contract, right? It's a contraction thing thatheightens your performance. It toughens your muscles, if you will. And so herewe are. [00:17:00] Uh, raising these animals under 100%, 24 seven, uh,stressful conditions.
[00:17:07] And is it any wonder that thatis a going to cook longer, but be intuitively, is it any wonder. That, thatkind of fuel for our bodies will bring a stress factor along with it, into ourheads. I don't want to get all, you know, we move and mystical. Yeah. But, but,you know, we say you are what you eat, you are what you eat needs.
[00:17:28] Yes. So, uh, so all, all ofthese, all of these nuances from, uh, essential fatty acids to two ratios of,of different, uh, vitamins and minerals, Uh, to the, uh, existence of thevitamins and minerals. I mean, look, look, our cow or our chicken or our pigout here in the pasture is eating as many as probably, um, 20 different kindsof plants, a day, 20 different [00:18:00] kinds of plants a day, you know, fromplanting to coal.
[00:18:03] Over to fast you, um, Forbes andall sorts of things in Australia, the Aborigines are alleged to have eaten asmany as 3000 different kinds of food items, Americans eat what, you know, 30. Imean, I mean, and all you have to do is get a, get a cookbook, get a DollyMadison's cookbook or Martha Washington's cookbook from colonial America.
[00:18:31] And, and. And I'm not kidding.75% of all the foods in there we've never seen. I mean, who eats current, youknow, current bushes. I mean, those were common in early times. And so we justdon't get that variety. But if you eat animals that are on pasture, you get alot of that variety through the nuanced muscle.
[00:18:58] That gets [00:19:00] metabolizedby that. And, and I mean, I don't know how many little beings of bacteria Ihave in my micro bio that really needs a little thread of plantation tosurvive, but there's probably a couple of them. And when I eat meat, that'seaten plantation. I feed that bacteria. When we simplify everything now,knowing what we know about the gut and the brain relationship, is it any wonderthat simplification through the system actually simplifies our brain to where wecan't even think about complex things?
[00:19:38] Yeah. And, you know, speaking ofcooking and getting in the kitchen, right. I'm just curious, what do you, whatdo you, what do you do in your household? Do you guys have elaborate cookingtechniques or you keep it simple? You do one pot meals because I find this as abig sticking point for people is they might go source quality food.
[00:19:55] They might get to know theirfarmer, but then like, you know, maybe to get motivated, to learn some cooking,whatever they get in the [00:20:00] kitchen a little bit, and then they justkind of regressed to their means. So do you have any tips for that? Well, I'mnot cooking my family. You know, my wife is the, is the ultimate cook here, butwe're not Gore mans.
[00:20:12] We're not Gore hands by anymeans. I'll I'll, I'll tell you this. I'll tell you this. When you get the realstuff, you don't need a bunch of sophisticated sauces and marinades and allthat stuff. I mean, I mean, we, we literally, we do a lot of crops. Hot coursenow there's the Instapot, but a lot of a slow cooker, crock pot cooking.
[00:20:33] I mean, that is the Lea easiest.You just go out and you get, you know, you can get a frozen, a frozen T-bonesteak or a frozen piece of meat. You can throw it in there with some, you know,potatoes and carrots and onions. And, and throw some salt and pepper in there.Go to work at 8:00 AM that thing's just sitting, it just kind of bubbles, youknow, , uh, for on 40 Watts, 40 Watts of power all day.
[00:20:57] And if you get home at four,it's [00:21:00] ready. If you get home at five, it's ready. If you don't gethome until eight, it's not over cooked, it's not dry. It's ready. And so we, wereally think that the, that the slow cooker slash Crock-Pot is absolutely thesimplest most. Trouble-free it will guarantee you a good outcome.
[00:21:19] I mean, grilling the othertooking techniques, a flame grill. I mean, there's some sophistication in that.So, you know, the slow cooker is a, is a great technology of the day. 21stcentury. Yeah, I couldn't agree more. So I got a couple of quotes out of thebook that I want to ask you about. And then mostly due to our connectionproblems.
[00:21:38] I want to let you get back toyour day. We still got a lot of value out of this already in the early parts ofthe book. You talk about silos. So experts talk about silos. Can you justexpand on that a little bit? I thought that was fascinating idea. Yeah. Well,so we've all heard about silos. What that means is that we live in our ownsilo.
[00:21:56] We yup. All of us are experts inour [00:22:00] own little, our own little world. We're all myopic. And so it'sreally hard to look outside of the silo. And that's one of the reasons why, uh,Sina and I think the book is so valuable is because. Yeah, she, she was livingin the silo of chemistry and nutrition. I was living in the silo of farming.
[00:22:21] And so I've learned from hershe's learned from me. And so what we desperately need is cross-pollination andeclectic dialogues with people we wouldn't normally run around with in order tobring us a more comprehensive, balanced view of, of life. And so, uh, yeah, so.Look, if you want to break out of your silo, that might be one of the bestmental decisions that you can make.
[00:22:48] Yeah. And that actually leadsperfectly to the next thing that I highlighted when I was reading. So you saidwe live in victim land. Can you just expand on that a little bit? Oh yeah. For[00:23:00] sure. Victim land. Yeah. W we applaud victims anymore. I mean, theidea, the idea that I'm responsible, what I'm smart. No, my doctor'sresponsible for my health.
[00:23:10] Yeah, no, the, you know, thesupermarket's responsible for my food, uh, or the government, the Donald's orwhatever. Yeah. The government. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it goes, it goes tospectrum. And so the fact is that, uh, the only person that's going to actuallytake care of you is you. And if you. Become a victim of circumstance say, well,you know, I can't because, uh, I don't earn enough or I don't have enough time.
[00:23:34] I just told you how you couldcook cook in minutes with a slow cooker using high-tech, you know, stuff that'svery cheap. And so there are a lot of answers too, to cost of good food, toconvenience of good food, to culinary expertise. There are answers all over theplace, but you will never find the answers.
[00:23:56] If you start with, I can'tbecause I didn't, [00:24:00] I didn't grow up that way. I didn't learn that Idon't have enough time. I don't have enough money, but, you know, whateveryour, your I can't is, is the precursor of being a victim. And you will neverpunch through that until you quit being a victim, kind of said it bettermyself.
[00:24:15] Okay. So what's something wedidn't ask before we let you go. What's the question, maybe relate to the bookor something you would just want people to kind of think about right now. Well,one of the things I want people to think about right now is that with the, withthe pandemic, it's fundamentally changing buying habits.
[00:24:32] And for the first time we'reactually hearing people routinely ask. Well, how do I build my immune system?That's a great conversation to have. And so I don't want anybody to get sick,but again, being a victim look, w w we're we're creating a society that saysunless, and until we have a vaccine, I'm a victim of this disease.
[00:24:56] No, look, I want somebody topush Dr. [00:25:00] Fowchee aside, uh, the poor man and Sahara America. We'regoing to give you a recipe for immune building for a week. Do this for oneweek. See if you don't feel better. So we're, we're not going to drink any softdrinks. We're going to throw Coca-Cola away. We're not going to do any of that.
[00:25:15] We're not gonna eat a McDonald'sand fast food. We're going to eat food that we can pronounce for one week. Itmight mean you have to cook. It might mean you have to, you know, do somethings, but, but eat only food you can pronounce. And then we're going to, uh,uh, get outside for one hour a day and we're going to, and we're going to workup to 20 minutes a day of at least a mild sweat.
[00:25:33] We're going to get someexercise. We're going to get, we're going to move. All right. You know,Michelle Obama, we're going, we're going to let's move. All right. And then,and then we're gonna, we're gonna sleep for eight and a half hours a night.We're going to drink, uh, two quarts of water a day. And, um, And finally, uh,well, I would say emotionally, if you listen to 10 minutes of news, then wash itaway.
[00:25:54] With 20 minutes of comedy, itgets Laurel and Hardy. I love Lucy something, you know, where you belly laugh[00:26:00] for twice, as long as you watch the depressing news. And finally,we're going to forgive everybody. We hate everybody. You hate write them downand forgive them. And you do that. You do that recipe for one week and thechances are.
[00:26:14] You'll never get sick from COVIDbecause your immune system will be so good. It'll just pass you by. Yeah,that's great. It's surprising because everything you just said to do, you couldprobably do in about an hour a day, if you condensed it and maybe for cooking acouple of meals, you spread out, you know, hour and a half to two hours a day.
[00:26:31] But I mean, we're talking about thenhealth that you're gonna enjoy for the rest of your life. That's going toprotect you. That's gonna keep you out of the doctor, out of hospitals, notbuying pharmaceuticals. It's just baffling to me at this point, with the amountof information that's available, that we still struggle.
[00:26:43] Just getting people to be like,okay, that's cool. I'm gonna do that. It really fascinating. Yeah. Well, it'sfast. So the thing to me, uh, when I drive down the road and there goes atractor trailer carrying, you know, carrying Coca-Cola and mountain Dew here weare in, in a, in a pandemic fighting for our lives, fighting for our [00:27:00]immunities systems and those trucks, I don't have.
[00:27:04] And just, I don't hate them, butI do hate what they do to, you know, to our immune system. And, um, and soyou've got a guy, you know, guzzling, half a pound, a pound of sugar now, causethose sugary drinks have, you know, tablespoons of sugar in each one. And thenhe's hoping he doesn't get sick and he's hoping he doesn't fall victim to thisthing.
[00:27:25] And he's hoping that there's avaccine that'll, that'll fix whatever he gets, if he gets it. And it's just.It's just a very, uh, enslaved mindset. That's dependent on a bunch of otherpeople. And I'm saying what I've just described, that doesn't cost anything.It, all it does is enable you to own your own future.
[00:27:43] And, and I'd say that's aninvestment worth making. Absolutely. Brian, you had a funny anecdote you wantedto ask about before we let them go. There were a couple of, there were twothings when I was looking up different things that you'd done that were, that.I thought we were hilarious. The first one was apparently you had this whensomebody was [00:28:00] talking about why GMOs might not be something youwanted, you had a quote about a, uh, I think it was a rooster making love to atomato.
[00:28:10] He doesn't remember even. Oh no,no. I remember it. Well, so the point that, you know, people, people ask, youknow, look, GMOs are just, they're just a new permutation of Mendel's. Piece,you know, hybridization, right? Mendel's piece where peas having sex with peas,it wasn't a chicken on a tomato. If the sexual organs don't match up, itprobably ain't.
[00:28:32] Right. And so to me, if you seea ch a rooster getting all of the tomato in your garden, then you'd probablythink something's a little bit weird. And that's exactly what happens withgenetically modified organisms. And while they are a bridging all of thehistorical scientific boundaries. To make sure that, that they abrogate everyone of those boundaries.
[00:28:54] And the problem is we humanswe're so clever. We can actually do things that we can't [00:29:00]spiritually, emotionally, or physically in metabolize. Yeah. And we can't dothe research to know the long-term implications in the extremely complexenvironments and how it can have downstream effects. And, you know, somelikeness seem to Lev talks about that a lot fooled by randomness there's this,it just seems like when humans intervene in nature, We always screw it up, youknow, I just like, I must we're doing it the right way, but yeah.
[00:29:21] You know, that's why we needregenerative agriculture. It seems like. Yeah, that's right. And the otherpoint of that is that the time, the slinky effect of time, um, is too short tobe able to see what the ramifications, I mean, look, look, how long did theUSDA. Uh, and the, and the FDA and the dietetics association tell Americans,you don't want to eat butter and lard, man.
[00:29:45] You want hydrogenated vegetableoil. They did this for decades and decades and decades until now all of asudden wham. Oh, uh, not only should you eat less of it, you shouldn't eat anyof it. So here a [00:30:00] material that was monitored and encouraged andsubsidized for decades. Has now suddenly become so bad. It doesn't even existanymore.
[00:30:10] I mean, that's a, that's aprofound, but look how long that lag was. And there were people, there werepeople within two or three years screaming saying, this is not right. Weshouldn't be doing this. And they were lost in the orthodoxy, in the, in theOrthodox narrative where literally decades until, until that slinky finallycaught up and we could connect the dots.
[00:30:33] And that's one of the big, youknow, one of the big problems is in real time. Uh, it takes time to see some ofthese things. Yeah, I always, I always think about 2100. What are humanscientists, people going to look back and think about humans in 2020? I thinkthey'll just probably look at it at us as cavemen and our understanding ofthings.
[00:30:54] Yeah. I think you're right. I doactually do a speech title heretics of the world unite. And that's the[00:31:00] whole idea. We look back at heresy. We look back at, you know, welook, uh, you know, when you think about, you know, how Galileo was treatedwhen he said, yep. You know, Well Columbus, the winter world was round.
[00:31:10] I mean, you look back and welaugh at ancestors who thought that the bubonic plague was spirit world. And,and, and think back of all these things that we've seen, you know, women don'twant to vote. And, uh, you know, the CEO of IBM in 1966 saying, you know, therethere's no, there's no need for any more than five computers in the entireworld.
[00:31:30] You look back at this stuff andI'm with you. I love to go ahead and think, you know, in 2100. Ourgrandchildren exam.
[00:31:45] They believed the germ theory.They believed the germ theory. Yeah, exactly. So Joel, where can people findyou and follow along? Polyface farms is our website. Uh, P O L Y F a S T EPolyface farms. [00:32:00] And, uh, it's a website. He got a lot of informationthere. You'll enjoy, uh, just parking there for a few minutes.
[00:32:08] Okay. And we'll have linked toyour new book and everything. Uh, and I believe you are shipping actually meaton the internet now, is that true? Yes we are. So if you don't know where tofind a farmer, or if you're, if you're confused and you're just wanting to dipyour toe in the water, one of the things, uh, so we're, we're now shippingnationwide.
[00:32:27] You can get on the website orderfrom us. We'll send it in a box. And one of the things that this whole, youknow, this whole new world we're in creates. Is, we've had literally abreakthrough in the pricing and the logistics of distribution. So it isbecoming price competitive. Now with the more expensive, especially with thepandemic, uh, social distancing and mask wearing requirements and just thewhole, the whole physical bricks and mortar shopping experience.
[00:32:57] I don't know if it'll everrecover and internet shopping [00:33:00] carts. Are becoming easier and easierto navigate. It's all becoming easier. And so we're thankful that that hasenabled us to reach people that couldn't have been reached before. And yeah, wewelcome any commerce to come on and try something.
[00:33:15] That's more like it was athousand years ago. That's awesome. We'll have links to that below and wereally appreciate coming on the show and keep doing what you're doing. Itmatters. Thank you guys. You've been delightful, please. Always remember thatthe members. Of the ancestral mind podcasts are not in fact medicalprofessionals.
[00:33:35] They're not doctors, they're notnutritionists. They are simply providing this entertainment for you to do yourown research and to entertain yourselves. So please consult a physician beforechanging your diet. Not everything works for everybody and make sure you alwaysdo your own research on everything you hear on this show and outside.